WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

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Stelio
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WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

Post by Stelio » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:55 pm

Stelio wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:36 pm
I've also got a date for our first game: Sunday 4 March. So that's exactly a month to go before I need to have a 1500 point army ready. Yay!
It turns out that 1500 points is a lot more army than I expected. XD

Sticking with the Daemons (because they're easier to assemble and (crucially) to paint), here's an initial list for 1496 points:
  • Supreme Command Detachment (+1 CP)
    • 320 - HQ: Great Unclean One (doomsday bell, plague flail, stream of corruption, fleshy abundance, miasma of pestilence, warlord: virulent touch)
    • 100 - HQ: Epidemius
    • 156 - HQ: Daemon Prince of Chaos (daemonic axe, malefic talons, fleshy abundance)
  • Battalion Detachment (+3 CP)
    • 70 - HQ: Poxbringer (virulent blessing)
    • 75 - HQ: Spoilpox Scrivener (Entropic Knell)
    • 70 - Troops: 10 Plaguebearers
    • 70 - Troops: 10 Plaguebearers
    • 70 - Troops: 10 Plaguebearers
    • 70 - Troops: 10 Plaguebearers
    • 126 - Troops: 7 Nurglings
    • 102 - Elites: 3 Beasts of Nurgle
    • 102 - Fast Attack: 3 Plague Drones
    • 165 - Fast Attack: 3 Pox Riders of Nurgle
That's nearly all my daemons anyway. All that's missing from there is a second GUO, a second Poxbringer (using a Spellcrow model), and one more Plaguebearer. I've got a Slopppity Bilepiper and new Beast of Nurgle on order too, but no set delivery date yet.

Thoughts on this list:
  • The Plaguebearers can be merged into fewer units, but I've split them up due to my analysis here.
  • This is the best amount of command points I can get; I'd need 1 more Troops, 2 more Elites, 1 more Fast Attack, and 3 Heavy Support for a Brigade Detachment (+9 CP).
  • The other Great Unclean One is armed with a bilesword, and costs 5 points more, which would take me over the 1500 point limit.
  • I don't think daemonic icons are worth the points. I'm avoiding the instruments of chaos too. Just going for a straightforward build for what is my first game in decades.
  • Having read the various stratagems available to me, I think that saving the 4 CP for re-rolls is the best option.
  • Movement will be absolutely critical with this force. There are few ranged attacks, and I need to get the infantry into melee quickly to save on attrition. The Spoilpox Scrivener is critical to this, increasing the move of all Plaguebearer Infantry within 6" by 2" - this includes himself and the Poxbringer, bringing them all up to 7", in line with the GUO. The Pox Riders also have a base 7" move (but can Fly too).
  • Epidemius can bring up the rear at 5" move, keeping his tally to (hopefully) good effect.
  • The Daemon Prince has the flexibility to support where needed, with a move of 8".
  • The Plague Drones zip around at 10" Fly.
  • The Nurglings can infiltrate, which is worth doing, using them to try bogging down any long range weapons platform. They won't survive long, but should act as a brief distraction.
  • The Beasts only have a move of 6" which is a bit too slow. They may end up being ineffective. We'll see.
  • The GUO and Daemon Prince are obvious targets. Giving them both Fleshy Abundance will allow them to heal some of the fire that they will inevitable soak. I'm hoping they will draw fire away from the Plaguebearers and Heralds.
  • I'm thinking of ignoring daemonic summoning. It seems a bit of a hassle, and risky in terms of possible failing and causing wounds.

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minamoto
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Re: WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

Post by minamoto » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:35 am

Stelio wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:55 pm
Thoughts on this list:
  • The Plaguebearers can be merged into fewer units, but I've split them up due to my analysis here.
That's what I heard as well is the new shit - MSU (multiple small units)
  • The other Great Unclean One is armed with a bilesword, and costs 5 points more, which would take me over the 1500 point limit.
Stripping down one of your HQ's maybe a bit?
  • Having read the various stratagems available to me, I think that saving the 4 CP for re-rolls is the best option.
Re-Rolls for CP are quite important but need to be thinked over twice, rerolling a failed dice to fail again is still valid :smug:
  • The Plague Drones zip around at 10" Fly.
Fly is quite handy to leave Close Combat, after that, charge again. Gives you some advantages against non Fly-Units.
  • I'm thinking of ignoring daemonic summoning. It seems a bit of a hassle, and risky in terms of possible failing and causing wounds.
It's a big gamble, but do demons don't gain that certain strategem to get an additional dice for summoning?
Can be quite pesky to spawn a unit of flyers or beasts behind enemy lines.


I think that's a cool list.

I'd rather go with 3x 14 Plaguebearers, 10 is blasphemy! Also this gives you some meat to loose on the way to the front. Do PB gain any bonuses from being ten or more?
New Morale rules might also be a factor for them. That might be something to consider as well.

from point-efficency two sets of malefic talons on your DP are better that one plus axe because you gain 3 additional attacks and your DP should be strong enough to get enemies smashed with it's natural strength. Also should come out a bit more cheaper so you can use the points elsewhere.

I'd also would not worry to much about movement, with the advancing rule your close combat units can always advance right away. Plus after a succesful charge (& combat) you can reposition quite far. Even with slowpoke Tyuphus I managed to get into charge range by turn two.
... rolled a manly 6 - Typhus really wanted to hit those imperial guardsmen :scheveningen:


Curios to hear how your game went.
>> Text goes 'ere <<

Stelio
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Re: WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

Post by Stelio » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:38 am

minamoto wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:35 am
Stripping down one of your HQ's maybe a bit?
Well, there's nothing left to strip out as I haven't taken any options - other than the Daemonic Axe on the Daemon Prince, and that's just because that's how I've modelled him (if I was designing the build for 8th edition, I wouldn't have chosen the axe). But then again... I do have a plastic Daemon Prince set somewhere that I acquired for an aborted side project. Now, where is it? (Seriously, where is it? I have no idea other than it's in the house somewhere.) That could indeed take two sets of malefic talons, if I can find it.
minamoto wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:35 am
Re-Rolls for CP are quite important but need to be thought over twice, rerolling a failed dice to fail again is still valid :smug:
Absolutely. I think they are best used for those situations where you have a good chance of rolling well, but get an unlucky 1. Otherwise it's likely that you'll waste the CP.
minamoto wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:35 am
...but do demons gain a certain stratagem to get an additional dice for summoning?
  • Daemonic Pact for 1CP lets a character perform two summons in one turn.
  • Soul Sacrifice for 2CP causes D3 mortal wounds, but lets you roll 4 dice rather than 3 for the summoning roll.
  • Denizens of the Warp for 1CP or 2CP lets you set up one unit in the Warp, and you can bring them into play at the end of any Movement phase.
  • And a Great Unclean One with a doomsday bell also rolls 4 dice when summoning.
When rolling 3d6, P(0 wounds)=55.6%, P(1 wound)=41.7%, P(D3 wounds)=2.8%.
When rolling 4d6, P(0 wounds)=27.8%, P(1 wound)=62.5%, P(D3 wounds)=9.7%.
So rolling more dice may get you a higher Power unit, but also significantly increases the chance of taking mortal wounds.
minamoto wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:35 am
I'd rather go with 3x 14 Plaguebearers, 10 is blasphemy! Also this gives you some meat to lose on the way to the front. Do PB gain any bonuses from being ten or more?
I agree; 14 is a much fluffier number. Sadly the rules don't reflect that. Only Plague Marines explicitly have a possible squad size of 7. Plaguebearers have to be 10, 20, or 30. By the core rules errata, "If you are playing a matched play game, you can only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary Support Detachment." Which loses command points.

Plaguebearers do have a large squad bonus: -1 to be hit if the unit contains 20+ models. I'm undecided on whether that (combined with using the virulent blessing psychic power on a large unit) makes it worth the risk of morale losses causing a mass wipe.

Stelio
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Re: WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

Post by Stelio » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:11 am

Stelio wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:38 am
I agree; 14 is a much fluffier number. Sadly the rules don't reflect that. Only Plague Marines explicitly have a possible squad size of 7. Plaguebearers have to be 10, 20, or 30. By the core rules errata, "If you are playing a matched play game, you can only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary Support Detachment." Which loses command points.
I reckon I'm talking out of my bottom here. Not on everything: just on the idea that 14 plaguebearers is understrength. I expect that "understrength" only refers to less than the minimum unit size, and that any unit size between minimum and maximum is perfectly fine (costing exact for points, and rounding up for power).

But just to be sure, I've dropped an e-mail to the GW FAQ/errata team to clarify (along with a bunch of other points).

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