WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

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Stelio
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WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

Post by Stelio » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:55 pm

Stelio wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:36 pm
I've also got a date for our first game: Sunday 4 March. So that's exactly a month to go before I need to have a 1500 point army ready. Yay!
It turns out that 1500 points is a lot more army than I expected. XD

Sticking with the Daemons (because they're easier to assemble and (crucially) to paint), here's an initial list for 1496 points:
  • Supreme Command Detachment (+1 CP)
    • 320 - HQ: Great Unclean One (doomsday bell, plague flail, stream of corruption, fleshy abundance, miasma of pestilence, warlord: virulent touch)
    • 100 - HQ: Epidemius
    • 156 - HQ: Daemon Prince of Chaos (daemonic axe, malefic talons, fleshy abundance)
  • Battalion Detachment (+3 CP)
    • 70 - HQ: Poxbringer (virulent blessing)
    • 75 - HQ: Spoilpox Scrivener (Entropic Knell)
    • 70 - Troops: 10 Plaguebearers
    • 70 - Troops: 10 Plaguebearers
    • 70 - Troops: 10 Plaguebearers
    • 70 - Troops: 10 Plaguebearers
    • 126 - Troops: 7 Nurglings
    • 102 - Elites: 3 Beasts of Nurgle
    • 102 - Fast Attack: 3 Plague Drones
    • 165 - Fast Attack: 3 Pox Riders of Nurgle
That's nearly all my daemons anyway. All that's missing from there is a second GUO, a second Poxbringer (using a Spellcrow model), and one more Plaguebearer. I've got a Slopppity Bilepiper and new Beast of Nurgle on order too, but no set delivery date yet.

Thoughts on this list:
  • The Plaguebearers can be merged into fewer units, but I've split them up due to my analysis here.
  • This is the best amount of command points I can get; I'd need 1 more Troops, 2 more Elites, 1 more Fast Attack, and 3 Heavy Support for a Brigade Detachment (+9 CP).
  • The other Great Unclean One is armed with a bilesword, and costs 5 points more, which would take me over the 1500 point limit.
  • I don't think daemonic icons are worth the points. I'm avoiding the instruments of chaos too. Just going for a straightforward build for what is my first game in decades.
  • Having read the various stratagems available to me, I think that saving the 4 CP for re-rolls is the best option.
  • Movement will be absolutely critical with this force. There are few ranged attacks, and I need to get the infantry into melee quickly to save on attrition. The Spoilpox Scrivener is critical to this, increasing the move of all Plaguebearer Infantry within 6" by 2" - this includes himself and the Poxbringer, bringing them all up to 7", in line with the GUO. The Pox Riders also have a base 7" move (but can Fly too).
  • Epidemius can bring up the rear at 5" move, keeping his tally to (hopefully) good effect.
  • The Daemon Prince has the flexibility to support where needed, with a move of 8".
  • The Plague Drones zip around at 10" Fly.
  • The Nurglings can infiltrate, which is worth doing, using them to try bogging down any long range weapons platform. They won't survive long, but should act as a brief distraction.
  • The Beasts only have a move of 6" which is a bit too slow. They may end up being ineffective. We'll see.
  • The GUO and Daemon Prince are obvious targets. Giving them both Fleshy Abundance will allow them to heal some of the fire that they will inevitable soak. I'm hoping they will draw fire away from the Plaguebearers and Heralds.
  • I'm thinking of ignoring daemonic summoning. It seems a bit of a hassle, and risky in terms of possible failing and causing wounds.

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minamoto
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Re: WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

Post by minamoto » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:35 am

Stelio wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:55 pm
Thoughts on this list:
  • The Plaguebearers can be merged into fewer units, but I've split them up due to my analysis here.
That's what I heard as well is the new shit - MSU (multiple small units)
  • The other Great Unclean One is armed with a bilesword, and costs 5 points more, which would take me over the 1500 point limit.
Stripping down one of your HQ's maybe a bit?
  • Having read the various stratagems available to me, I think that saving the 4 CP for re-rolls is the best option.
Re-Rolls for CP are quite important but need to be thinked over twice, rerolling a failed dice to fail again is still valid :smug:
  • The Plague Drones zip around at 10" Fly.
Fly is quite handy to leave Close Combat, after that, charge again. Gives you some advantages against non Fly-Units.
  • I'm thinking of ignoring daemonic summoning. It seems a bit of a hassle, and risky in terms of possible failing and causing wounds.
It's a big gamble, but do demons don't gain that certain strategem to get an additional dice for summoning?
Can be quite pesky to spawn a unit of flyers or beasts behind enemy lines.


I think that's a cool list.

I'd rather go with 3x 14 Plaguebearers, 10 is blasphemy! Also this gives you some meat to loose on the way to the front. Do PB gain any bonuses from being ten or more?
New Morale rules might also be a factor for them. That might be something to consider as well.

from point-efficency two sets of malefic talons on your DP are better that one plus axe because you gain 3 additional attacks and your DP should be strong enough to get enemies smashed with it's natural strength. Also should come out a bit more cheaper so you can use the points elsewhere.

I'd also would not worry to much about movement, with the advancing rule your close combat units can always advance right away. Plus after a succesful charge (& combat) you can reposition quite far. Even with slowpoke Tyuphus I managed to get into charge range by turn two.
... rolled a manly 6 - Typhus really wanted to hit those imperial guardsmen :scheveningen:


Curios to hear how your game went.
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Stelio
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Re: WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

Post by Stelio » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:38 am

minamoto wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:35 am
Stripping down one of your HQ's maybe a bit?
Well, there's nothing left to strip out as I haven't taken any options - other than the Daemonic Axe on the Daemon Prince, and that's just because that's how I've modelled him (if I was designing the build for 8th edition, I wouldn't have chosen the axe). But then again... I do have a plastic Daemon Prince set somewhere that I acquired for an aborted side project. Now, where is it? (Seriously, where is it? I have no idea other than it's in the house somewhere.) That could indeed take two sets of malefic talons, if I can find it.
minamoto wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:35 am
Re-Rolls for CP are quite important but need to be thought over twice, rerolling a failed dice to fail again is still valid :smug:
Absolutely. I think they are best used for those situations where you have a good chance of rolling well, but get an unlucky 1. Otherwise it's likely that you'll waste the CP.
minamoto wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:35 am
...but do demons gain a certain stratagem to get an additional dice for summoning?
  • Daemonic Pact for 1CP lets a character perform two summons in one turn.
  • Soul Sacrifice for 2CP causes D3 mortal wounds, but lets you roll 4 dice rather than 3 for the summoning roll.
  • Denizens of the Warp for 1CP or 2CP lets you set up one unit in the Warp, and you can bring them into play at the end of any Movement phase.
  • And a Great Unclean One with a doomsday bell also rolls 4 dice when summoning.
When rolling 3d6, P(0 wounds)=55.6%, P(1 wound)=41.7%, P(D3 wounds)=2.8%.
When rolling 4d6, P(0 wounds)=27.8%, P(1 wound)=62.5%, P(D3 wounds)=9.7%.
So rolling more dice may get you a higher Power unit, but also significantly increases the chance of taking mortal wounds.
minamoto wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:35 am
I'd rather go with 3x 14 Plaguebearers, 10 is blasphemy! Also this gives you some meat to lose on the way to the front. Do PB gain any bonuses from being ten or more?
I agree; 14 is a much fluffier number. Sadly the rules don't reflect that. Only Plague Marines explicitly have a possible squad size of 7. Plaguebearers have to be 10, 20, or 30. By the core rules errata, "If you are playing a matched play game, you can only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary Support Detachment." Which loses command points.

Plaguebearers do have a large squad bonus: -1 to be hit if the unit contains 20+ models. I'm undecided on whether that (combined with using the virulent blessing psychic power on a large unit) makes it worth the risk of morale losses causing a mass wipe.

Stelio
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Re: WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

Post by Stelio » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:11 am

Stelio wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:38 am
I agree; 14 is a much fluffier number. Sadly the rules don't reflect that. Only Plague Marines explicitly have a possible squad size of 7. Plaguebearers have to be 10, 20, or 30. By the core rules errata, "If you are playing a matched play game, you can only include an understrength unit in an Auxiliary Support Detachment." Which loses command points.
I reckon I'm talking out of my bottom here. Not on everything: just on the idea that 14 plaguebearers is understrength. I expect that "understrength" only refers to less than the minimum unit size, and that any unit size between minimum and maximum is perfectly fine (costing exact for points, and rounding up for power).

But just to be sure, I've dropped an e-mail to the GW FAQ/errata team to clarify (along with a bunch of other points).

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Re: WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

Post by Stelio » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:27 pm

Image

Battle against the Necrons

We used random Open War cards and got:
  • Half the table each for set-up, split across the long axis, with no no-man's-land between us. (Hence why you can see me set up above right on the line.)
  • The complication is that one side sets up completely before the first, and that person also plays first with a 5/6 chance. I got second set-up and played second in practice.
  • The objective was that each side had one courier unit that had to be killed for victory. That unit cannot be the warlord (in my case the Great Unclean One). So I chose my Daemon Prince, who you can see at the back in the middle (big yellow base), the better to stay protected.
Except he wasn't all that well protected, since the Necron player moved his [Doom Scythe/Night Scythe?] directly behind and teleported a unit of Immortals in as well! Lots of shooting took off a couple of my models, and put a wound on the Daemon Prince. In the meantime his courier, a Triarch Stalker, moved to the far left corner (as you look at the photo above) to keep its distance from the action.

I split my army. The Plague Drones and Pox Riders (both fast attack) moved towards the Triarch Stalker. I moved half the Plaguebearers, the Beasts, and the Nurglings towards the main Necron forces. And the rest of my army (the other half of the Plaguebearers and all the HQ units) reversed to attack the Immortals. I healed the Daemon Prince with Fleshy Abundance as well.

Over the course of play, the units that moved forwards successfully tied down the various Necron units into close combat, preventing them from shooting (with the key exceptions of the Doomsday Ark and the [Doom Scythe/Night Scythe]). The Plague Drones closed in on the Triarch Stalker but the Plague Toads got picked off. I wiped out the Immortals, but another unit teleported in behind (which I also managed to wipe out, triggering the first level of Epidemius's Tally). My own units were being slowly worn down, losing half a unit of 10 Plaguebearers on the left, a Beast on the right, and a couple of bases of Nurglings, but they were holding out superbly well thanks to their daemonic invulnerable saves combined with being Disgustingly Resilient.

Ultimately we ran out of time. My opponent wanted to call it in my favour, because he couldn't see a way to win (as after the initial vulnerability, I kept the Daemon Prince surrounded in a blob of other units). But it would take me a few turns to get that blob over to the Triarch Stalker, during which time the rest of the Necrons (in my opinion) may have worn away enough of my units to possible gain victory. I was very happy to call it a Draw in any case.

A successful first game. My overall feeling is that the army does what I expected: moves slowly but weathers a huge battering with little discomfort. I felt the lack of ranged weapons, but a sensible choice of psychic powers gave me the flexibility to adapt to my opponent's tactics. Given that I don't have that many more daemon models, there's not much that I'd change in this list. (Well, except that my wife found the plastic Daemon Prince model this morning, so I'd swap that in with a pair of Malefic Talons for extra attackiness.) The small unit size for Plaguebearers turned out to be most useful for letting them split up and attack different targets, so yay for flexibility; definitely recommended. Other unit sizes were good: three of each for utility units that all have many wounds; seven Nurglings bases was great, because they are quite squishy so need more numbers in order to stay effective (and they were effective, dealing out a lot of damage even if they couldn't survive much in return). In fact, the Nurglings got my vote for Man-of-the-Match.

Next time? Well, perhaps I'll have some painted units by then. Or perhaps I'll start on the Death Guard. Either way, I'm taking a well-earned break now and not doing any modelling for a while. Well... except perhaps to fix a few breakages from today (one plastic Plaguebearer off its base, and Epidemius lost both his sword arm and banner which both really need to be pinned instead).

Praise be to Father Nurgle! :cool:

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Dai
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Re: WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

Post by Dai » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:33 am

Sounds like a smashing game. Glad the daemons performed as youd hoped.
All that lovely nurgleness will look so cool painted up.
Arse! Feck! Drink! Girls!

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minamoto
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Re: WH40k 8e: 1500 Nurgle Daemons list

Post by minamoto » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:28 pm

Are you working fo GW, Stelio?
All these "useful" links to GW's webshop XD
Stelio wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:27 pm
Battle against the Necrons
Yay! for a great game. That's all what it is about, unless you are a modeller and painter then it's all the other stuff of this hobby.

Good to hear that your plan worked out
Stelio wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:27 pm
In fact, the Nurglings got my vote for Man-of-the-Match.
:eeew: :thumbsup:
I have a picture in my mind of several Nurglings piling up to a man's heigth XD
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